history - Are Europeans Edomites?

I had always thought that Europeans descended from Yafet, not Shem, and certainly not Shem, Avraham and Yitzhak. I am aware that it was common in the past to equate Rome with Edom, but I always assumed this was an allegory, likening Rome's treatment of Yisrael with that of Esav's treatment of Yaakov. However, I recently learned that some actually believe the Romans, and European people by extension, are the literal descendants of Esav, the Edomites. Is this true?

EDIT: I am not trying to be offensive, but as a white gentile, I find the view that white people are Edomites offensive because of this verse (Gen 25:23):

"And the LORD said unto her: Two nations are in thy womb, and two peoples shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."

If a significant portion of the Jewish community believes white gentiles exist to serve them, how is that not offensive and racist? Please explain how this is not true, as I don't want to become hateful myself. Is it only Orthodox Jews who believe this?

Answer

As other posters have pointed out, there are indeed various opinions in Jewish sources as to whether the equation of Edom with Rome is literal or metaphorical. I recall also seeing a view (though I can't recall the source) that it's specifically the early Roman patrician families who were descended from Edom, while the rest of the Italian peoples were descended from Kittim, one of the Japhetic nations. According to this view, practically speaking there's no one today who can be identified as an Edomite, since most of the old patrician families were extinct already in early imperial times (and anyway, I doubt very much that anyone nowadays could reliably trace their ancestry back that far).

As for your difficulty with "the elder shall serve the younger," here are a couple of thoughts to chew on.

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  Which one is really the "elder," Yaakov or Eisav? Eisav was born first, but Yaakov was the first one conceived (Rashi to Gen. 25:26, citing a Midrash). Furthermore, Eisav sold the birthright, making Yaakov the legal firstborn. You could then argue equally well that the verse is saying that Yaakov will end up serving Eisav. (I've actually come across this idea recently, although again I don't recall the source.)

  
  


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  "Service" doesn't necessarily equal "subservience." As an extreme example to the contrary, Rehoboam's older advisors tell him to "be a servant to the people and serve them... and they will serve you" (I Kings 12:7). He'll be the king and they'll be the subjects, but they'll both be "serving" each other in the sense that each of them is working on behalf of the other's interests.

  
  

  In Jewish tradition we have the symbiosis of the tribes of Yissachar and Zevulun, where the Zebulonites worked (as seafaring traders) and used their wealth to support the Issacharites' Torah study, and received part of the Divine reward for that. (Some of the Zebulonites also became distinguished Torah scholars through this association, and they are singled out for praise in Judg. 5:14.) The same could have been true of the relationship of Eisav and Yaakov: rather than being antagonists, they could have been partners - Yaakov with his Torah study, Eisav with his hunting in order to provide for Yaakov's upkeep (and learning from Yaakov's fine qualities in the bargain). Eisav would then indeed be "serving" Yaakov, but not in a demeaning and servile sense, but as one who has the privilege of assisting in an important endeavor.

  
  

  And in a sense he does. The Talmud (Avodah Zarah 2a ff) depicts G-d's judgment of the nations in order to determine what acts they've done that deserve commendation. Each one comes in turn - the Romans, the Persians, and so forth - and point out various things they've done to advance civilization - "and all of these we did only so that the Jewish People should be able to engage in Torah." In the narrative, G-d dismisses this claim as foolish: "Everything that you did was for your own good!" The truth is, though, that their argument has merit: all of the discoveries, inventions, creature comforts, etc., that the non-Jewish world has produced can be, and should be, used for G-dly ends - like the computers, the Internet infrastructure, and the StackExchange platform which we're using for this discussion. In that sense, even now "Eisav serves Yaakov" by making more material resources available for Yaakov to serve G-d; what G-d derides as "foolish" is the fact that they don't realize this and come with this claim only when it's too late.