Tuesday, September 12, 2017

grammar - Difference between さえ、でさえ



Could you explain to me the difference between さえ and でさえ?


Example:



そんなこと、子どもでさえ知っている。



Can I use さえ instead of でさえ in this sentence?



そんなこと、子どもさえ知っている。




Answer




Grammatically, "で" can only be used before "さえ" when "でさえ" comes after a noun. "で" cannot be used after a verb. E.g. たべさえすれば is OK but たべでさえすれば is NG. Semantically, "で" adds emphasis or is filler.


My very good source: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/even


[edit-append] I used google to search for "子どもでさえ" and "子どもさえ". Statistically, "子どもでさえ" is overwhelmingly more frequent. I think it is because "子供でさえ" is a fixed expression just as the English expression "Even a child ..." is a fixed expression to express how easy/simple/knowable/etc. something is. When used for that meaning, "子供さえ" would therefore sound odd.


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